Emmanuel Goldstein's written testimony

Eric Corley, aka Emmanuel Goldstein, at DefCon IV in Las Vegas, 1996

Goldstein, whose real name is Eric Corley, has often been the lightning rod of criticism of hackers and their activities. But he is also their most outspoken defender. Though in the past he has granted interviews to several publications, he did not respond to repeated requests for an interview. But this exchange with Rep. Edward Markey, a Democrat from Massachussetts, taken from Congressional records, sums up his position well:

Mr. Goldstein: "First of all 2600 is not a manual for computer crime. What we do is, we explain how computers work. Very often knowledge can lead to people committing crimes, we don't deny that, but I don't believe that is an excuse for witholding the knowledge. ...These are all things that people should know," ...

Mr. Markey: "Let's go to the other side of the problem, the joy rider or the criminal that is using this information. What penalties would you suggest to deal with the bad hacker? Are there bad hackers?"

Mr. Goldstein: "There are a few bad hackers. I don't know any myself, but I'm sure there are."

Mr. Markey: "I assume if you knew any, you would make sure we did something about them. But let's just assume there are bad people subscribing [to the magazine]. What do we do about the bad hacker?"

Mr. Goldstein: "Well, I just would like to clarify something. We have heard here testimony that there are gang members and drug dealers who are using this technology. Now are we going to define them as hackers because they are using this technology?"

Mr. Markey: "Yes. Well, if you want to give them another name, fine. We will call them hackers and crackers, all right?"

Mr. Goldstein: "I think we should call them criminals."

Mr. Markey: "So the crackers are bad hackers, all right? If want another word for them, that is fine, but you have got the security of individuals decreasing with the sophistication of each one of these technologies, and the crackers are out there. What do we do with the crackers who buy your book?"

Mr Goldstein: "I would not call them crackers. They are criminals. If they are out there doing something for their own benefit, selling information —"

Mr. Markey: "Criminal hackers. What do we do with them?"

Mr Goldstein: "There are existing laws. Stealing is still stealing."